Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  45

  Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

  know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

  - 2 cor.

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  Sea Breeze

  If Jesus Christ was present among Christians gathered together in his name, then the various groups of Christians wouldn't be doctrinally divided, yet they are greatly divided doctrinally

  @DJW - The WT has been claiming this, but the truth of the matter is Bible-believing Christians are united in the essentials - Justification, Sanctification & Glorification.

  From there, the tent is plenty big enough to accommodate non-essential diversity of thought. Go and learn the difference between unity and uniformity.

  DJW says:

  A relevant question to ask within this topic is the following. "Do JWs want Jesus or Jehovah to live instead of them?" I think that if JWs (and maybe even non-evangelical Christians in general) were to think about the idea of Jesus or Jehovah/YHWH (God the Father) living inside of them, then most of them would dislike the idea, but perhaps I am wrong about that.

  Finally you got something right DJW! The idea of self-abandonment is utterly foreign to our nature. This is an adult problem. Little kids (in loving homes) don't have this problem.

  Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? 32Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. 33So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. - Jesus

  Usually people don't make this kind of decision until they are squeezed. I personally believe that when people get near death, the price seems all the sudden very acceptable.

  When the Roman legions showed up on the edge of your territory, the terms were a small percentage of your wealth. This seemed reasonable to many peoples. They got a free army in exchange and didn't have to worry about the maurading bands of barbarians as much.
  
  Likely, people thought Jesus would maybe strike some kind of similar deal. In the scripture above, Jesus sets forth his terms for peace. It is quite simple: ALL OF IT.
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  45

  Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

  know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

  - 2 cor.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Smiddy,

  Your question bothered me a fair amount for around 10 years after getting saved and born again. I don’t know if it had something to do with my JW background or because I am naturally self-willed person.

  I don’t recall any other born again Christians wrestling with this question like I did. Kinda like a marriage, you do the best you can to choose wisely, but you never really know until you take the plunge.

  All I can say is that the Spirit of God seems to run like some kind of background program…. Somewhat similar to the sub-conscious mind that effortlessly helps us reach our goals, mostly outside of our awareness.

  The self isn’t lost, it is more like it is finally found.
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  45

  Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

  know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

  - 2 cor.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Sea Breeze

  Axiomatically, this is symbolic like saying “God is my throne”.

  @Fisherman: No, it is not.

  AXIOM: A self-evident principle or one that is accepted as true without proof as the basis for argument; a postulate.

  Is it self-evident that inanimate objects do not inhabit other people, yes. It is NOT SELF-EVIDENT at all that the spirit of God is the same as a chair and cannot inhabit people. To compare the two and claim that it is self-evident is evidence of a reprobate mind in my opinion. In other words, it's retarded.

  Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates - 2 Cor. 13: 5

  
  

  @Smiles :

  If Jesus dwells inside of people, why is he apparently not present where only ONE has gathered in his name?

  As previously mentioned by another poster, "one" cannot gather. Furthermore, when Jesus said this, it was before Pentecost and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Before Pentecost, Jesus was in the midst of any gathering in his name. (Omnipresence is a Characteristic of God, not angels btw) After Pentecost his spirit inhabited the believer.

  The problem is that the bible and the WT say opposite things about this topic. The bible says Jesus gives us understanding. But the WT says that they do!

  Compare This:

  And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true—His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5: 20

  But the WT says understanding comes from them alone:

  
  

  With This:

  
  Even with all the aids that are available no one can understand the Bible unless he engages in private study...He must also associate with others of God’s organization - w57 6/1 pp. 325-328

  “Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind.” (The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, page 587)

  “Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his “faithful and discreet slave,” made up of spirit anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.” (The Watchtower, December 1, 1981, page 27)

  “We have the opportunity to show love for our brothers who take the lead in the congregation or in connection with Jehovah’s visible organization worldwide. This includes being loyal to “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45-47) Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own.” (The Watchtower, December 1, 1990, page 19)

  “All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the “greatly diversified wisdom of God” can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.” (The Watchtower, October 1, 1994, page 8)

  Just like in the Garden of Eden, we have a choice to make regarding whom to believe. This is why we are declared righteous by faith and not by works. Belief, precedes sin. It is a matter of our volition, not deeds. A moment before Eve sinned, she chose not to believe God, but another voice.

  Whom we believe is the root of the problem, not sin.
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  45

  Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

  know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

  - 2 cor.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Fisherman: Gal. 2: 20 states for born-again believers "Christ lives in me".

  This was the message taken to the gentiles:

  Colossians 1:27
  “To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”
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  35

  According to Jehovah's Witnesses, who will be saved?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know who won't be saved according to witnesses and that includes just about everyone alive at armageddon who is not a jehovah’s witness.

  .

  others who are permanently lost include adam and eve, those who died in the flood, people of sodom and gomorrah and apostates to their one true religion..

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  Sea Breeze

  Jesus will reply, "Don't you know what makes my Father's name known?" You counted on your works to save yourselves...as if I owed you salvation for your efforts. If you had loved me, you would have built orphanages, you would have rescued widows and the homeless..... These are the things that my sheep do because they love me and follow me...not to save themselves

  Now Bro. Vanderhoven7 don't you realize that the Slave has been placed over all of God's belongings and is now his "Mouthpiece"? As such, the Slave has clarified Jesus words and parables like the Good Samaritan:

  Watchtower 1954 December 15 p.759 :
  "By giving the Kingdom message instead of giving mere money or material things they reach those who are really "poor in spirit," "conscious of their spiritual need," rather than just the self-seeking poor of this world who do not care to belong to Jehovah. Thus the unappreciative worldly poor who prefer to belong to Satan the "god of this system of things" are screened out."

  They also have given wise instruction on our duty concerning the appropriate timing of bowel movements:

  
  Golden Age 1936 Jan 15 p.227

  What would we do without the Slave to explain things in a way that we can understand?

  Likewise, when Jesus told us to accept the new covenant for the forgiveness of sins, we would have probably gone ahead and did that if it wasn't for the WT. readjusting our thinking.

  This brother maintained a fine attitude while the elders worked tirelessly to readjust his thinking on the subject of reading the bible for himself.

  
  
  
• 
  45

  Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

  know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

  - 2 cor.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? - 2 Cor. 13: 5

  When I was a JW, I would have been very uncomfortable allowing Jesus' spirit to live inside of me.

  Wouldn't that be spirit possession if Jesus is really Michael the Archangel?
  
  
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  34

  1985 and baptism...I wish I had read this before today

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am posting a link as to being legally bound to jw rules at time of baptism.

  i only did a quick skim, but what i gathered is interesting, and what it says about 1985 may be of use to some hoping to just fade and not be bothered.

  in 1985, the questions were changed at baptism for legal purposes so they could have causation to defend themselves should you decide to sue for whatever reason.

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  Sea Breeze

  It doesn't really matter. I have friends who grew up JW and didn't get baptized. They are shunned just the same as if they were baptized and faded or got disfellowshipped.
  
  This is what is so hard to understand because it is so contrary to nature: If you grow up in a JW family you WILL get dumped by your practicing JW parents. I know there are exceptions, but I don't personally know of any.
  
  The WT is God to practicing JW's for all practical purposes. Remember, they are appointed over all of God "belongings". That means everything including you.
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  56

  Senior JW member in Australia charged with sex crimes and torture

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  see: https://7news.com.au/news/crime/senior-jehovahs-witnesses-member-charged-with-rape-torture-and-assault-of-teenage-boys-c-8044666.

  "senior jehovah’s witnesses member charged with rape, torture and assault of teenage boys...".

  the 61 year-old man "faces 21 counts of rape, 17 counts of sexual assault, 13 counts of procuring sexual acts by false pretence and one count each of incest, torture and common assault.".

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  Sea Breeze

  Quote: "According to court documents obtained by the ABC, several victims were allegedly convinced by the defendant to participate in "energy sessions", which consisted of standing naked in front of a mirror chanting affirmations."

  Sounds similar to other wacky holistic WT medicinal techniques that some JW's are into.
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  35

  According to Jehovah's Witnesses, who will be saved?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know who won't be saved according to witnesses and that includes just about everyone alive at armageddon who is not a jehovah’s witness.

  .

  others who are permanently lost include adam and eve, those who died in the flood, people of sodom and gomorrah and apostates to their one true religion..

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  Sea Breeze

  
  
• 
  35

  According to Jehovah's Witnesses, who will be saved?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know who won't be saved according to witnesses and that includes just about everyone alive at armageddon who is not a jehovah’s witness.

  .

  others who are permanently lost include adam and eve, those who died in the flood, people of sodom and gomorrah and apostates to their one true religion..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Sea Breeze